The staff at Ulster Politics hardly thinks that Upstate New Yorkers concerns are on the top of the Democratic Majority's list of priorities.
A while ago, fellow blogger Joe Bubel (Logic Over Liberalism) wrote about "Upstate versus Downstate interests - are they the same?" If you have not read this, it's worth checking out.
It's an interesting conundrum for upstate Democrats. By voting for Democratic Senators, Upstate New Yorkers guarantee control of NY State government by New York City downstate politiicans. If you think those NYC Democratic Legislators care about you as an upstate Dem, just ask anyone who lives in Dutchess or Orange Counties and is affected by the new MTA payroll tax. Ask anyone in the Assembly if Sheldon Silver is interested in reforming the school tax/property tax system. He's not. Downstate Democrats don't care about upstate.
By Upstate New Yorkers voting for Republican Senators, they can bring representation to upstate New York issues. Just look at the map, and think about it the next time you need to vote for a Senator. If you like helping to fund the MTA and the current school tax/ property tax system - vote for a Democratic Senator. If you want to bring some balance back to Albany, vote for a Republican Senator.
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33 comments:
How about electing Democrats? The enrollment is Democratic for each Hudson Valley district. Why should a predominantly Democratic district elect Republicans?
Maybe the answer is to join in on the fun and get the party in control representing you!
Great Map! (and thanks for the plug, or in this case, a blug). What I noticed about this map, is ballance and lack of, republican senators are all AROUND the state, not the same can be said about the democrats. They're all crammed into 5 little counties. We should have given all 5 boroughs to the UN.
7:14 - the problem with that argument is that the downstate Democrats rule, even when there is a representative from the Hudson Valley involved. Look at the Assembly. Sure Kevin Cahill "represents" us, but does he give a shit about property tax/school taxes. No, he doesn't. He doesn't because Sheldon Silver doesn't. And what the downstate rules want they get. You will never see property tax/school tax reform as long as the NYC politicians rule Albany. If you like funding school taxes through your property tax, keep voting Democrat. If you want real representation for Upstate NY, sorry, you need to vote Republican and get Silver out and get control of the Senate back.
7:14
If we use your logic, the Democrats would never have taken the Ulster County Legislature. People like yourself would have joined the Republicans during the quarter century rule and any dissenting thought would have been rendered moot.
What utter silliness!
9:12 - If we elect Democrats as the regional demographics suggest we should,, they can then create a Hudson Valley voting block similar to the Latino and African American caucuses. Once they organize, they will generate power. That is how you create change.
Putting people on the losing team will do nothing except make us more frustrated and under represented.
You have to be in the game in order to have a part in how the game is played and how the game ends up. The Democrats will do nothing but grow their voting advantage margin in the Senate and the Assembly. Why fight it? Join in and be part of the change. Time to smarten up.
7:14's theory is fine as long as you don't really believe in anything other then being in with whoever is in power.
I imagine 7:14 was a Yankee fan in the offseason after all of the big free agent signings, but has now switched to the Mets, at least until they have their yearly late season self-destruction.
I'm a Democrat and I think that our representatives like Kevin Cahill need to starting working to represent upstaters and stop catering to Sheldon Silver.
Kevin is never going to go against Sheldon though because he'll lose his plum office and committee chair assignments.
The problem is the leadership is all from NYC. Silver, Smith, Paterson. Even if we wanted leadership from upstate in the Senate, much less the Assembly there are very few choices.
It is a condumndrum.
10:07 what you are forgetting is voter enrollment. If the enrollment doesn't change, the Legislature doesn't change.
The Democrats grew by leaps and bounds during the 90's and that is how the Democrats took over the Ulster Counyt Legislautre. The same thing is happening in the Hudson Valley with the NYS Assembly and Senate districts.
What is utter silliness is that people still think it is smart to stick with a dying party which will be marginalized even worse after the next census and redistricting.
Get with it! The time to act is now! Be part of the change and not part of the aftermath.
As the Democratic party moves north, the influence moves north too! It will not happen overnight, but it will happen. Check the calendar, it is not 1985 anymore. You are not paying attention.
I live in Ulster County, but own a business in Dutchess County. I am a Democrat, but have absolutely no love for my State epresentatives in Albany. The MTA payroll tax is absolute bullshit. This tax is going to cost me about $2,700 a year, in addition to all of the other taxes that I am faced with. Ulster County businesses don't know how lucky they are to not be part of this MTA payroll tax. I also have no love for the Speaker's lack of initiative on fixing the school tax situation here. The writer of this blog is correct regarding our fellow Democrats in New York City. While we may agree on just about everything from the war to immigration, when it comes to taxes upstate, the NYC State Democratic leaders just don't get it.
We don't need to flood the Senate and State Legislatures with Democrats.
All we need is an upstate caucus made up of Democrats and Republicans representing upstate interests. That would have much more power then a few extra Democrats in the Senate and Legislature creating a patheically small Hudson Valley voting block.
There are other caucuses in both the federal and state governments that cross party lines.
2:14
You do realize that you argued that voter enrollment does not change and then to prove your point talked about how it changed to favor Democrats.
For most (or maybe just many) people enrollment in a party says something about their beliefs. For some of us to it is unpalatable to drop our beliefs just to have a seat at the table.
It is clear from your comments that your desire is to push the Republicans further out of power and not to ensure upstate representation.
Would you join the Republican party if you moved to state dominated by Reublicans?
Look at the map. The Democrats don't need Hudson Valley votes, from either party.
We , the ductchess county, are bullied and robbed. Even all OUR reps voted no, Paterson/Silver/Smith still shoved this down our throat. I don't see how this is gonna be reverted, with those bullies with no feelings about neighboring counties. Typical bully case.
There are only 6000 daily riders from DC, compared with 8.5 millions in NYC, but we are pumping millions millions to MTA, now more to come. AND Lord Stainhause says DC government has to pay $400,000 more too, guess what, that will come out of our pockets too. Boy, when will this end???????
The New York City Politicians have again demonstrated their disdain for all upstate citizens. They are enabled by the massive number of voters who have, in past, voted their own self-interests above the rest of the state.
NOW a great portion of these new york city voters have moved upstate to escape the high cost of living in NYC.
Got screwewd by your own game? Time to stop thinking like a long island liberal and become a upstate conservative!
KNOW YOUR ENEMY: Sheldon Silver the Assembly Majority Leader is behind almost everything wrong with NY State. The NY Post labeled him The King of New York. Here's one more of his latest corrupt activities.
Click HereMore on Sheldon Silver, the enemy of the citizen's of New York.
Click Here
I guess all you people who would "never" vote Republican like paying your school taxes based on the value of your home through your property taxes.....
Here is why the school tax system will never change as long as the NYC Legislators are in leadership positions. By the way, ALL 5 OF THEM ARE FROM NYC.
The idea of a property tax cap was dead on arrival in the Assembly, whose Democratic conference is dominated by legislators from New York City. Why?
Because there is no separate school property tax in New York City, which keeps its property tax relatively low and, instead, relies on a separate city income tax. Want to read the whole article
click hereYou Democrats need to either lead by kicking the NYC dominated leaders out, follow some upstate Republicans who can get that done, or just get out of the way.
Don't you see that they have ABSOLUTELY NO INTEREST in changing how we pay our school taxes. They just don't care. Yes, they are Democrats, your soul mates, but they are selling you horseshit and you are eating it and asking for more. Cahill is so far up Silver's ass, you will never get him to lead any sort of property tax reform.
Upstate Democrats need to stop going along with these downstate bullies.
I guess we can just cave in, vote Democrat and simply become the bedroom community to NYC and Albany they already think we are.
any post that refers to jbubel if he's the same one who thinks he's omniscient who 'corrects' every liberal poster on the Freeman's blogs, then it isn't worth reading since all he writes is PSYCHOBOOBEL.
I like and agree with the idea of an "Upstate Caucus", regardless of which party you are from. But are there enough "Upstate" senators to block or influence NYC senators?
Here is what's fair, just like the US senatorial representation, instead of population based, there should be one senator from each county in NY.
The fact is that upstate Democrat voters are sorely mistaken when they believe that their party represents their interests in the NYS Legislature. Legislative Democrats are not voting based on their Party's principles and ideals. They are voting the way they think their constituency wanst them to. Given that the vast majority of legislative Democrats come from NYC, they will always, always, always vote for NYC interests regardless of how it impacts the areas north and east of the City.
No matter how big or strong the non-NYC Democrat voting blcok becomes, it is mathematically impossible for them to do anything contrary to the will of NYC Dems. Consequently, Legislators like Kevin Cahill will continue to give lip service to our interests while voting along with their downstate cronies because that is the only way they get a piece of the campaign funding pie as well as all those legislative perks they have come to depend on.
Face it, the money and power controlled by NYC Dems has bought and paid for the cooperation of the remainder of the Democrats in the Legislature.
The only block in the Legislature that has the slightest chance at protecting our interests is the Republican block in the State Senate. Assembly Republicans don't have the numbers. Assembly and Senate Democrats just don't give a rat's backside about us because they are either from NYC or - if not - the NYC Dems give them what they really want. Senate Republicans are close enough to half of the Senate that they can stop or slow down certain bills just enough that the Dems have to bargain with them.
Once the bargaining stops, every single upstate interest, need or desire is DOA. New York State then becomes NYC and its rural and suburban colonies.
Don't fool yourself. There is no way, under any set of imaginable or plausible circumstances, that non-NYC Dems will ever, ever, ever have the strength or the will to effectively defend us against NYC Dems.
All you Republicans can move out of New York State if you don't like it.
Kevin Cahill and the other upstate Democrats in the Assembly need to DUMP Silver to show there voters they are working for them not the NYC connection. At least vote against him in your caucus to put on the show
Imre, you nailed it. Fantastic explanation.
10:04, Cahill will never dump Silver. He doesn't shit where he eats.
It is always better to be on the good side of the people in power. Always!
When the power changes, you can only hope that your guy or gal is still in good shape.
The whole idea is to get what you send to Albany in tax dollars back to your district. That includes school funding, sate aid to local, governments, grants, one time programs, member items, whatever, just get it back here.
If you start pissing off your leadership that will stop cold.
As for being in the minority, let's keep an eye on Bonacic and Larkin to see what they do now that they are in the Minority.
I can't believe the "can't beat em, join em" "side with the power" crowd here. Talk about your 'loyalists'. We'd still be paying homage to the Queen if, instead of fighting, we just kept paying taxes and accepted the fact that England was much to powerful to do anything about it.
7:16
Let me get this straight. Your plan is to cave into whoever is in power and if things switch just cave in again. Don't voice your beliefs and for heaven's sake don't make the powers that be angry.
I prefer to have my own spine, then rent one from the party in power.
Also, your conviction that it is all about getting our tax dollars back here just caves into the idea that the money needs to be sent to Albany in the first place, so our state leaders can take their cut before sending us our pennies on the dollar. How about we keep the money here through lower taxes and fees and not have to beg them to get a little of it back.
You probably have never stood up to a bully in your life and instead stood beside him laughing at whoever he was picking on, hoping that your go along to get along attitude keeps you from being the next one the bully targets.
Republicans are moving out of NY State. That is part of the problem. When the last of us leave you will be left to complain about the high taxes and nanny state policies yourself, unless you like those kind of things and think we enjoy currently too much democracy and need to be more strongly governed.
That map shows, democrats in the DIRTIEST parts of the State. Albany, Syracuse, Bufalo, Watertown, and of course NYC. Why does dirt follow dems. For a party that touts its environmental deeds, they sure live in filth.
12:05 I think what 7:16 is saying is that the dominant party, as in the Democrats, should be elected and that is a good thing. I agree.
I think what you are saying is that we should vote for republicans just because they are not Democrats. Why should a democrat dominated area vote for republicans?
Vote for whomever you like. The argument has repeatedly been made that we should join the party in power, which now is the Dems, by sending more Dems from our area in order to be better represented.
This has been tried and it fails. The Dems in Albany, both in the Legislature and the Senate are dominated by NYC Dems and they do not need Hudson Valley votes. For Pete's sake, look at the recent budget process. After years of yelling for a more open process, it became more secretive then ever when Dems gained control of the Senate to go along with the Assembly and the Governor. Three people, all NYC Dems, sat in a room and decided how the money in NY State is going to be spent. If you feel represented in that process just because all three had a "D" after their name, you are deluding yourself.
Our Dem representatives from the Hudson Valley give the NYC Dems whatever they want in order to keep their own seats and perks. All we do by sending more Dems to Albany is make the NYC Dems more secure in their leadership seats and less inclined to consider upstate interests.
NYC views the Hudson Valley as someplace to serve NYC interests, whether it is for water, 2nd homes, weekend visits, etc...
If the Dems in the Hudson Valley are happy with that then we are lost. We will need to be happy with our service industry jobs, being a bedroom community to NYC and a nonentity to Albany.
To those who just love the NYC democrats, just tell me, how representitive was it, for NYC democrats to shove the MTA tax increase upstate? Did the voters in these counties, by their representation, have ANY say? Who did the NYC democrats do any favor for? Was this in the best interest for NY STATE? or just NY City?
Judging by the number of counties attempting to get OUT of the MTA region, I would have to side on NYC democrats doing what was best for NYC, and their own political asses, and NOT what was best for thier STATE!
Although, nothing was ever getting done in Albany, while the republicans had the majority in the Senate, nothing is sometimes better than something.
I don't know what is more frustrating? A do nothing Albany with no way to speed it up, or a do everything 'NYC' Albany and no way to slow it down.
Wow UCP. Apparently, Freeman Uber-Liberal Poster "Little Paulie K" is a reader of yours.
Good for you Little P, you made the connection between jbubel and "joe bubel" are one in the same person. A real genius, I had better watch out.
BTW, is Pinchas sitting right behind you?
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